Monday, September 21, 1998
CLINTON: No, sir. But she could have said it. Just because I don't remember doesn't mean it wasn't there.
QUESTION: So you're not denying that? That...
CLINTON: Oh no. I wouldn't deny that. I just don't remember it. You asked me if I remember it. I don't. She might have done it.
QUESTION: Do you ever remember telling her, Mr. President, that she should not write some of the things that she does in these cards and letters that she sends to you because it reveals -- it disclosed this relationship that you've had and that she shouldn't do it?
CLINTON: I remember telling her she should be careful what she wrote, because a lot of it was clearly inappropriate and would be embarrassing if somebody else read it. I don't remember when I said that. I don't remember whether it was in 1996 or when it was. I don't remember.
QUESTION: Embarrassing in that it was revealing of the intimate relationship that you and she had. Is that right?
CLINTON: I do not know when I said this. So I don't know whether we did have any sort of inappropriate relationship at the time I said that to her. I don't remember.
But it's obvious that if she wrote things that she should not have written down and someone else read it, that it would be embarrassing.
QUESTION: She certainly sent you something like that after the relationship began, didn't she? And so therefore there was, at the time she said it, something inappropriate going on?
CLINTON: Well, my recollection is that she -- that maybe because of changed circumstances in her own life, in 1997, after there was no more inappropriate contact, that she sent me more things in the mail and that there was sort of a disconnect sometimes between what she was saying and the plain facts of our relationship.
And I don't what caused that, but it may have been dissatisfaction with the rest of her life. I don't know.
You know, she had from the time I first met her talked to me about the rest of her personal life. And it may be that there is some reason for that.
It may be that when I did the right thing and made it stick that, in a way she felt a need to cling more closely or try to get closer to me, even though she knew nothing improper was happening or was going to happen.
I don't know the answer to that.
QUESTION: After you gave her the gifts on December 28th, did you speak with your secretary, Ms. Currie, and ask her to pick up a box of gifts that were some compilation of gifts that Ms. Lewinsky would have (OFF-MIKE)?
CLINTON: No, sir. I didn't do that. I did not do that.
QUESTION: When you testified in the Paula Jones case -- this was only 2½ weeks after you had given her these six gifts -- you were asked at page 75 of the deposition, lines 2 through 5: "Well, have you ever given any gifts to Monica Lewinsky?"
And you answered: "I don't recall."
And you are correct when you point out that you actually asked them to (OFF-MIKE) -- do (ph) you know that they were?
CLINTON: Yes, I think what I meant there is I don't recall what they were, not that I don't recall whether I had given them.
And then, if you see, they did give me the specifics, and I gave them quite a good explanation here. I remember very clearly what the facts were about the black dog. And I said that I could have given her a hat pin and a Walt Whitman book, but I did not remember giving her a gold broach, which was true. I didn't remember it. I may have given it to her, but I didn't remember giving her one.
They didn't ask me about the Christmas gifts.
CLINTON: And I don't know why I didn't think to say anything about them, but I have to tell you again, I even invited them to have a list. It was obvious to me by this point in the definition -- in this deposition that they had -- these people had access to a lot of information from somewhere. And I presume it came from Linda Tripp.
And I had no interest in not answering the questions about these gifts. I do not believe that gifts -- gifts are incriminating, nor do I think they are wrong. I think it was a good thing to do. I'm not -- I'm still not sorry I gave Monica Lewinsky gifts.
QUESTION: Why did you assume that that information came from Linda Tripp?
CLINTON: I didn't then.
QUESTION: I thought you just testified that you...
CLINTON: No, no, no. I said I now assume that because of all the subsequent events. I didn't know -- I just knew that -- that some...
QUESTION: Let me ask you about...
CLINTON: ... somebody had access to some information and they may have known more about this than I did.
QUESTION: Let me ask you about the meeting you had with Betty Currie at the White House on Sunday, January 18, this year, the day after your deposition. First of all, you didn't -- Mrs. Currie, your secretary of six or seven years, you never allowed her, did you, to watch whatever -- whatever intimate activity you did with Ms. Lewinsky, did you?
CLINTON: No, sir, not to my knowledge.
QUESTION: And as far as you know, she couldn't hear anything either? Is that right?
CLINTON: There were a couple of times when Monica was there when I asked Betty to be places where she could hear because Monica was upset, and I -- this was after there was -- all the inappropriate contact had been terminated. But...
QUESTION: I'm talking about the times that you actually had the intimate contact.
CLINTON: She was -- I believe that -- well, first of all, on that one occasion in 1997, I do not know whether Betty was in the White House after the radio address in the Oval Office complex. I believe she probably was, but I'm not sure. But I'm certain that someone was there. I -- always, someone was there.
In 1996, I think most of the times that Ms. Lewinsky was there, there may not have been anybody around except maybe coming in and out, but not permanently so. I did -- that's correct, I never -- I didn't try to involve Betty in that in any way.
QUESTION: Well, not only did you not try to involve her, you were specifically trying to exclude her and everyone else. Isn't that right?
CLINTON: Well, yes. I -- I've never -- I mean, it's almost humorous, sir. I'd have to be an exhibitionist not to have tried to exclude everyone else.
QUESTION: So if Ms. Currie testified that you approached her on the 18th when you spoke with her and you said, "You were always there when she was there." She wasn't, was she? That is, Mrs. Currie.
CLINTON: She was always there in the White House. And I was concerned -- let me back up a sec ...
QUESTION: What about the radio address, Mr. President?
CLINTON: Let me back up a second, Mr. Bittman. I knew about the radio address. I was sick after it was over. And I -- I was pleased that, at that time, it had been nearly a year since any inappropriate contact had occurred with Ms. Lewinsky.
I promised myself it wasn't going to happen again. The facts are complicated about what did happen, and how it happened. But nonetheless, I'm responsible for it.
On that night, she didn't. I was more concerned about the times after that when Ms. Lewinsky was upset, and I wanted to establish at least that I had not -- because these questions were -- some of them were off the wall. Some of them were way out of line I thought.
And when I wanted to establish was that Betty was there at all other times in the -- in the complex, and I wanted to know what Betty's memory was about what she heard, what she could hear. And what I did not know -- but I did not know that. And I was trying to figure it out. And I was trying to figure it out in a hurry because I knew something was up -- after that definition (ph).
QUESTION: So you wanted to check her memory for what she remembered, and that is...
CLINTON: That's correct.
QUESTION: ... whether she remember nothing, or whether she remembered an inappropriate, intimate relationship?
CLINTON: Oh, no, no, no, no. No, I didn't ask her about it that way. I asked her about what the -- what I was trying to determine was whether my recollection was right because she was always in the office complex when Monica was there, and whether she thought she could hear any conversations we had or did she hear any.
And then I asked her specifically about a couple of times when --once when I asked her to remain in the dining room -- Betty -- while I met with Monica in my study, and once when I took Monica into the small office Nancy Hernreich occupies right next to Betty's and talked to her there for a few minutes. That's my recollection of that. I was trying to -- I knew, Mr. Bittman, to a reasonable certainty that I was going to asked more questions about this.
I didn't really expect you to be in the Jones case at the time. I thought what would happen is that it would break in the press and I was trying to get the facts down. I was trying to understand what the facts were.
QUESTION: Ms. Currie testified that these were not really questions to her, that they were more like statements. Is that not the truth?
CLINTON: Well, I can't testify as to what her perception was. I can tell you this. I was trying to get information in a hurry. I was downloading what I remembered. I think Ms. Currie would also testify that I explicitly told her, once I realized that you were involved in the Jones case, you were with the office of independent counsel and that she might have to be called as witness, that she should go in there and tell the truth, tell what she knew and be perfectly truthful.
So I was not trying to get Betty Currie to say something that was untruthful. I was trying to get as much information as quickly as I could.
QUESTION: What information were you trying to get from her when you said, "I was never alone with her, right?"
CLINTON: I don't remember exactly what I did say with her. That's what you say I said.
QUESTION: If Ms. Currie testified to that -- that she says you told her, "I was never alone with her, right?"
CLINTON: Well, I was never alone with her...
QUESTION: Did you not say that, Mr. President?
CLINTON: Mr. Bittman, just a minute. "I was never alone with her, right?" might be a question. And what I might have meant by that is, "In the Oval Office complex."
QUESTION: But you knew the answer...
CLINTON: Could -- we've been going for more than an hour, would you mind if we take a break? I need to go to the restroom.
Continued...
