In it, big companies would depend more on media agencies for their marketing strategy instead of relying solely on creative types at advertising agencies.

A decade ago, media agencies placed television commercials on one of three major networks or bought ads in major newspapers.

Now the new media include popcorn bags with a pull-off strip that would reveal a gift certificate, "smart billboards" that would tailor messages depending on who is driving by, or Internet sites with special incentives.

McHale knows all about that as president of Empower MediaMarketing in Columbia Tusculum. Last week, he was named one of two dozen national "Media Mavens" by the trade journal Advertising Age.

McHale, 38, sat down with the Enquirer to talk about the new world of media:

SO YOU'RE A media maven now?

(Laugh) I am. But it's about more than me. It's really about the whole agency.

WE SAW PROCTER & Gamble Co. place Crest in an episode of The Apprentice. Is there a limit to how far product placement can go?

As long as it's strategic, I really don't think there has to be a limit to it. Product placement will always be good as long as it lends something to the story.

HAVE MARKETERS REALLY CHANGED the way they think about media?

The coolest thing about being in media right now is that media have really started to lead the way in how you can connect with the consumer. It used to be, you'd come up with a really cool TV ad and then take it to the media guys and say, 'Can you place this for us?' ... It's no longer numbers on a flow chart. It's all about what's the best way to reach the consumer. And in a way that has a high return to the marketer. That's the key. It's got to work.

SO THERE'S A BROADER definition of what media is.

Exactly. Media is a broad word. It's really any way you interact with the consumer. You get the same message from your coffee cup that you do driving by an outdoor billboard.

IN SOME COUNTRIES, MARKETERS ARE sending messages to teens on their cell phones. Will American consumers accept messages they don't ask for?

Consumers here say they don't want it. I don't want it, and I'm in the business. But if I'm interested and I opt in, it's a win for everybody.

Cliff Peale