Herbold has a bachelor's of science from UC and both a master's degree in mathematics and a Ph.D. in computer science from Case Western Reserve University. And he spent 26 years in the executive suites at Procter & Gamble before joining Microsoft as chief operating officer.

ROBERT J. HERBOLD

Who: Former chief operating officer at Microsoft Corp., former senior vice president of advertising and information services for Procter & Gamble; a member of the board of directors of Cintas Corp., Weyerhauser Corp., Agilent Technologies and First Mutual Bank. Where: Former P&G executive Bob Herbold will sign copies of his book at Joseph-Beth Booksellers, 2692 Madison Rd., at noon on Monday. New book: The Fiefdom Syndrome (Currency/Doubleday; $26.95) CDs in the player: Elton John Greatest Hits 1970-2002 by Elton John; Earth, Wind & Fire, Vol. 1 by Earth, Wind & Fire; In the Land of Dreams by John Huling (Native American flute, drums and nature sounds). Books on the nightstand: Betrayal: How Union Bosses Shake Down Their Members and Corrupt American Politics by Linda Chavez; Franklin and Winston: An Intimate Portrait of an Epic Friendship by Jon Meacham.

During Herbold's 6 1/2 years at Microsoft, the company realized a fourfold increase in revenue and a sevenfold increase in profits. Herbold, who retired from Microsoft in 2001, became managing director of The Herbold Group later that year to consult with executives and management teams about business challenges.

In his newly released book, The Fiefdom Syndrome (Currency/Doubleday; $26.95), Herbold describes his time at Microsoft and Procter & Gamble and details how individual and divisional turf battles, or "fiefdoms" can waste company resources, derail careers and slow the flow of information.

Herbold spoke with Enquirer reporter John Eckberg.

WHAT IS IT with you guys that nobody can retire?

Hah, well, I really do enjoy tackling problems, and that's what it was all about at Procter & Gamble. I came to Microsoft to help Bill Gates get the business issues off his desk so he could focus on products. I worked half-time for Bill for two years and started to do some consulting. I just enjoy trying to help people make progress on tough problems.

TALK ABOUT the parallels, if any, between Microsoft and Procter & Gamble.

Both recruit really good people, and they focus a lot on getting good talent. Both focus on getting products right so that the consumer believes that they're looking at the best product. That's the clear goal all the time.

The big difference between the two companies is the speed with which the industry moves. It turns out that from a technical standpoint, the chemistry problem of getting a merlot wine stain out of a white shirt is tougher than doubling the capacity of a microprocessor. People work for ages to try to get whiter whites.

You can't research things extensively in the high-tech industry. You've got to move because the technology can pass you by. In the consumer products industry, you have the luxury of really trying to make sure that you get things right.

YOU SUGGEST that creative fiefdoms ought to be left alone.

Those groups where you expect creativity, and that includes sales groups that interact with customers, and the product groups that create products that excite customers - those people need to know that you're not going to do the job for them. One of the things that kills creativity is what I call the layers of wisdom model.

People are charged with being creative, but they're also asked to check with their boss when they get a bright idea so that the boss can comment. And then the boss's boss comments and pretty soon your people begin to realize that the customer is the chain of command of their management.

It's bad news for a company when a win is satisfying four levels of bosses. Committees create averages. Individuals create uniqueness.

A HARDWARE store owner picks up your book. What would you hope that he learns?

I would hope they look at what they're doing today and see if it's possible that they've become super-comfortable.

Are there ways to make that three-person operation more exciting? One of the things I learned very, very clearly in my 26 years at P&G is that what really counts is putting exciting products in front of consumers. They better be changing regularly, because your competition will be changing regularly.

You've got to move.

E-mail jeckberg@enquirer.com